For most of us, if we see our idols perform live, one of the last things we would expect to have on our figurative bingo cards would be to connect with them, much less collaborate with them on a song. Yet, that’s exactly what happened to Chelsea and Saleen Nolan of sister duo EQUAL when they went to a Twenty One Pilots show in Toronto in August 2022. In what could be described as a pinch-me-moment, after the show, the two linked up with Twenty One Pilots' trumpeter, Jesse Blum (also known as Dr. Blum), which led to a fruitful collaboration the following year with him, Marc Campbell of MisterWives, J. Glaze, and Kajun Waters on their latest single, "Stupid."
As the second lead single from their forthcoming EP, Parallel, the song is an extension of Parallel’s overarching theme of the titular parallels that could be drawn between the myriad experiences of their personal lives. Also, having undergone numerous revisions prior to its completion, it is arguably one of EQUAL’s most ambitious songs to date.
Recently, I had the pleasure of speaking with both Chelsea and Saleen about their latest single, ahead of their EP release!
Ken: Well, congratulations on the release of your latest single, "Stupid." How do you guys feel now that it’s out?
Chelsea: Well, personally, I’m pretty excited. I feel like it’s really been a long time coming since we wrote the song – writing it in New York. We didn’t even fully finish it in New York. I had it in the drafts for months and I came up with five different versions of verse two cause that’s what we were missing. Then, with the production and everything, it took a while. So, I’m so excited that finally the song that we’ve worked towards is actually out and people are hearing it. It’s very cool that it’s actually come to fruition.
Saleen: I feel like that, too. At least, I know you [do]. It’s like I want a song to sound a specific way, and I will leave it in the drafts forever cause I’m like, “It’ll never be perfect in my head.” So, with this one, I feel like we finally finished it. Well, we did a lot with [Jesse Blum, Marc Campbell, J. Glaze, and Kajun Waters] in New York and it gave us a really good foundation. Not even a foundation – it was so close to being done. That one was exciting cause I was a little scared there. We had that one in the drafts for a bit, so I was like, “Oh, it’s never gonna get done. We’re never gonna get to that one.” But we did and it’s out now. I didn’t even know it was getting released until I saw it on my Instagram and it was released. I was like, "Oh, I'll go listen to this song by EQUAL" [laughs].
Ken: Yeah, you took a long time to write it. Actually, I was going to talk about this later on in the interview, but since we’re talking about it anyway – you worked on the song in September 2023, and you spent the months after working on it and chipping away at it to perfection. When did you actually finish the song?
Chelsea: I’ve had it written for months and it’s been recorded for several months as well. Overall, I think the writing before the production, mixing, and mastering stage, I’d say it’s been done writing-wise like probably six months. I got [Ian Fragomeni] to record some drums over the top of it and then I got it mixed and mastered. It finally got finished completely a few months ago, but I wanted to do a proper – sort of advertisement – marketing campaign situation to amplify it instead of just dropping it and I wanted to make sure that it was pitched to Spotify in advance. That’s why it’s been done for a few months, and I had it sitting in the drafts. Well, it was sitting in the queue, actually.
Ken: So, was this the longest it took for you guys to write a song?
Saleen: Well, we haven't [written a lot of music together] cause a lot of the songs that we used to do were [written by her]. I didn't really start writing writing [until] a few years ago. It's like a lot of them we were just doing were hers. Then for our first EP as EQUAL, we did two songs together that we wrote. I feel like we wrote those so fast cause we had an idea. Also, it was just us two. It wasn't [with] a whole group of people. I felt like I wanted [the song to be perfect]. Not that I don't want every song to sound like the best it can and perfect, but with that one [it had to be perfect]. I look up to Jesse. He's so talented, and since I was young, [I saw] him play with my favourite artist. I felt like this one had to be perfect and I know you felt that way, too. In my head, I'm always like, "Nothing's ever perfect." I could just keep going at it. Keep going at it until it's not even the same thing.
Chelsea: There's a song on the EP where I hit record on my voice memos as I was writing, sang for five minutes, and listened back to it a few times. I was like, "I don't think I'm gonna change anything." I changed one lyric out of the whole five minutes and the rest of it I kept. So, a lot of the time I am like that. Not to the extent where I write a whole song start to finish in one take and don't change anything basically. If I'm super inspired, I can write a whole song within half an hour. So, I think it was the pressure of, again, seeing the people that we look up to, working with them, and [asking], "Okay, what will give the rest of this song justice?" But, not only that. When we were writing verse one and the chorus, I didn't know what the song was about and I kept asking, "What is this song about?"
Ken: Do you guys think, maybe, in the middle of the year, you'll feel like there's more that you could have done on the song or that you could've reworked it in some way?
Saleen: I do that with every song. I do that with everything ever. Even a song that's the mastered version of it. That's why I think it frustrates me cause I always feel I could add something. But that one, I think is a little different. I don't feel that way yet about it and I don't think I will feel that way about this one because it was so many different people.
Chelsea: No, I think I wouldn't change a thing. No, I wouldn't have it any other way. Yep, I did quote our song [laughs].
Ken: Awesome [laughs]. Earlier, you mentioned about Jesse and writing this song collaboratively. Can you talk to me about the whole process of collaborating with Jesse, Marc Campbell of MisterWives, J. Glaze, and Kajun Waters on the writing of this song?
Chelsea: It was such a fun experience of bouncing off ideas, talking to them, and having conversations of trying to trigger an idea of what this song is about. Marc came up with a lot of the lyrics for the chorus once we had the melody, and I came up with a lot of the verse lyric for verse one and stuff. But, yeah, that was basically the experience of just bouncing ideas off of it, off of everyone. Kajun was recording the vocals, everything. Meanwhile, J. was programming the drum tracks and coming up with an arrangement. Oh, that's the other thing. That chorus would not be the chorus that it is today if it weren't for J. I remember there was a point where J. and Jesse were discussing the format of how we were going to do it. It was a big conversation and we all were talking about it for 30 minutes of like, "Do we? Do we? I don't know. I don't know." Then we listened to it a few times and Jesse was like, "No, that's a stronger chorus. That is a stronger chorus. We need to loop it back."
Saleen: I feel like it was cool cause everyone in that room, at least from what I get from their music and stuff, was so different for the most part. It was a cool dynamic of people to have. It wasn't bias. It was different, fresh opinions.
Chelsea: It was debating too, like, "Do we do this? Or, do we do this one?" Oh, I wanna do this one, but I wanna do this one." Also, really trying to dial down on what is the decision that we're making. So, it was super fun. It was super fun to bounce ideas off and have really deep discussions. Then there was a point where Saleen and I sat in a room alone playing guitar and they said, "We'll go order you guys some pizza." They just chilled and brought back some pizza because we've never tried New York pizza before. Yeah, it was a very interesting process writing that song. But, an unforgettable day for sure.
Ken: We were talking about the collaborative writing process, but I'm curious to know about EQUAL's own writing process. Can you tell me a little bit about that and, maybe, how it's different?
Chelsea: Well, Saleen and I, normally, we write songs separate. Sometimes, we'll write a song together. First EP, I co-wrote "Desire" with her. She completely wrote "Don't Call," and then I completely wrote "Feeling" and "Downfall." It's usually one of my songs are on the EP and one of [Saleen's] songs. Then, we'll do a collab one or something. "Hope You Know," we wrote together. We haven't really written a lot of music together, though. We'll usually write them separate and come to the other person. Usually, the writer of the song will be at the forefront vocally, which is why for ["SF (whataboutit?)"] on this EP, Saleen was the main melody because she wrote that whole song. ["RWYA"] is another on our EP coming out, and that one she's mainly vocal. I'm just kind of in the background with the harmonies and, maybe, a vocal double.
Saleen: Or, usually, what we started doing with [Chelsea's] songs was I started being the second verse, and [she] kind of subconsciously did that a little bit.
Chelsea: Yeah. Or, for some reason, you always sound really good in the bridge, so we'll toss you in the bridge.
Ken: How does this song fit into the EP? How does it fit with the rest of the songs? Is there some sort of overarching theme of the whole EP?
Saleen: I wouldn't necessarily say there is. There slightly is an idea, but I feel we wrote that one so long ago, too. That one was not that far after our first EP, which was, I think, 2021.
Chelsea: I think it's vulnerability. I think the whole EP is being vulnerable and specifically it's called Parallel. It's pulling from parallels of our personal experiences in life, and that's how I've seen it personally with that EP. It's called Parallel for multiple different reasons. One, because we're pulling from, again, parallel things from our lives, but also, "What is a parallel thing?" It's two lines or two lines. Two lines make equal. So, it's all these different ideas.
Ken: I love how you guys share your personal experiences. It really shows in your vlog of your trip to New York. I found it really inspirational. I have to ask, what is your history of vlogging and can we expect to see more vlogs in the future?
Chelsea: You know what's so funny? It was so fun to make. I specifically brought our [old cameras]. I love thrifting old cameras, especially during 2020 – I had this weird knack to run to the camera electronics aisle in Value Village. I don't know the demographic, but for those who aren't in Canada or those who are, you should know Value Village. It's the lovely thrifty store, our Canadian pride, and I got all these old cameras, camcorders, whatever. I specifically learned how to get it working and stuff, and to bring it on the trip cause I wanted that cool fun retro, but also childhood, feel of filming home movies and stuff. We have a bunch of home movies from when literally my older's like, "How old are you Chelsea?," and I'm like, "I'm four!" Trying to create that nostalgic feel in the vlog was super fun. I definitely feel like we could do more. I think we have to do more physically as people in order to do vlogs. I feel like the more that we go and travel for shows, the more that we are creating music, recording music, and stuff. I do wanna put out more content where people can see behind the scenes, behind the curtain. What about you?
Saleen: Yeah, I agree with that fully.
Ken: I'm going to shift gears a little bit. I was wondering, do you guys have any shows, concerts, or festivals lined up for 2025 that you'll be performing at?
Chelsea: Funny enough, not yet. We basically start submitting around this time for the summer. December, January, even February is usually deadline submissions and stuff. You don't hear back for a bit. That being said, we're kind of in our artist development phase still and in our marketing phase, so what we're gonna be doing for the next little bit is really focusing and dialing in on TikTok shorts and reels. TikToks for as long as it's around because we do know the news about TikTok. Basically, creating content while we can on that platform and on all the others to really just push the promo for this music and get it going to a certain point – really dialing in on finding our online community and our online fan base. That being said, we always have a few things lined up. We always have a few festivals, so they will be on the way. Applications have been sent out for festivals, so you may be hearing some stuff very soon. There's definitely going to be stuff coming in the summer, and I do have a few festivals in mind that we usually play that I think we shall do again.
Ken: Do you guys have a dream venue you'd like to play at?
Saleen: I think you know mine – it's [Budweiser Stage]. It was [Molson Amphitheatre], but now it's [Budweiser Stage]. It's indoors and also outdoors. It's such a pretty venue in the summer when you go there. In my head, if I played there I'd be, "Oh, I made it. I'm done. This is it for me."
Chelsea: Yeah. So, a lot of people come see you. That'd be crazy. I also think it would be pretty rad to play the History, though. I love the History and that's only a 2000-capacity venue, so the chances of us playing that I think are likely.
Ken: I guess I have a final question. What do you guys want people to take away from your latest single?
Saleen: My dad would always say that the most important thing in life is to be a humble person. I feel like that's where my idea was when we were writing the song. If I kind of lost the train of thought of what we were writing about, I would try to think about that. We were talking about this in the other interview. It's like I would rather be struggling and seeing the hard parts of life, and go through it. It shapes me as a person and be grateful for the end product. That shaped me into a humble person or that shaped me into a good person. Even if it's a little bit negative, it's made me specifically who I am. All of the events that came up led to that. I'd rather be that than given everything, then I'm spoiled and I didn't learn anything. That's what it is, too. I feel like that's what I kept trying to come back to with this song is to just try to be real, too. My dad was always like, "I hate falseness." I don't wanna come off as rude ever to people. I'm terrified of that cause I want to be nice to everybody, but I can't fake it. I'm not good at it. Maybe, I'm just bad at social interactions and I'm blaming it on being a real person, but I can't just put on a thing.
Chelsea: I feel the same way with the song in trying to stay in touch, trying to stay grounded to who you are. Trying not to build an ego, even if the success builds, but also in a fact of being, again, vulnerable of insecurities – these are what we are facing and battling with. I think it's way more real and way more humble to do the scary thing of saying how you feel, even if it makes you seem insecure – it makes you seem to be this or that way. We are open about our feelings. We're open about our wants, our needs, things that make us anxious, things that make us overwhelmed. What is life if everyone walks around acting like they're okay, but there's secretly so much going on in their life and they're not [okay]? Why can't we just be real? Why can't we just tell people? So, going back to being humble, but also going back to being vulnerable of saying the things that, maybe, most people, again, won't say in a small-talk type of conversation.